Impact of Ramayan on Mahabharat

**santosh** · 01-04-2012

Impact of Ramayan on Mahabharat

We know that Mahabharat was written after Ramayan, & most probably there was a very long gap between our two epics. During that interval, country like India faced a change in its society, & as a literature is always affected with its society, one can identify those changes evidently by reading Ramayan & Mahabharat. But still there are several similarities between the two great epics. As Ramayan was written first, an unavoidable impact of Ramayan can be found in Mahabharat.

Firstly, the main important events of the two epics are almost similar. Let's see them first.

1) King Dasharath was cursed by a sage, as he mistakenly pierced the sage's son, & that curse was responsible for his tragic death. Similarly, King Pandu was also cursed. He too made same mistake, as he didn't recognize the sage who was disguised as a deer. Pandu too, died of that curse!
2) The swambar of Draupadi was based on the test of Astra-Vidya, which is similar to the case of Sita. Both Drupad & Janak wanted the real hero as their sons-in-law, & arranged swambar. Only the breaking of Haradhanu is replaced by the piercing of fish.
3) In both epics, the elder prince had to sacrifice his kingdom & all royal belongings, & both were banished with wife & brother. I know that the background of the Van-gaman of Dharmaraj is not similar to that of Ramchandra, but it may be thaught that the idea of banishing an innocent prince unfairly is the direct effect of Ramayan. Vyasdev has modified the fact & changed the background to keep pace with his society, but couldn't avoid the effect of Valmiki.
4) In both epics, heroin welcomed vanavas with her husband, & was abducted. Draupadi was abducted by Jaydrath, but Jaydrath was punished at once by Bheem & Arjun. Besides, Sita had to suffer painful insult from Ravan, similarly Draupadi was also insulted by Duhsashan & Duryodhan.
5) In both epics, the hero burst into anger after his wife was insulted severely, & became ready to take revenge. In both epics, the causes of war are very close. Ram started war to make Sita released from Ravan's hands, while Pancha-Pandav started war to get back their kingdom! "Patni-uddhar" in Ramayan & "Rajya-uddhar" in Mahabharat, are the main causes of war.
6) Both of the heroes became the winner, & both were Dharmayuddha. After both of the wars, Dharma was well established in earth.
7) In both the cases, the desire of the hero was fulfilled, but none could enjoy them! Neither Ram nor Yudhisthir could spend a completely peaceful & happy life even after the war! In both epics, when all of the external problems were finished, the internal problems came into play & threw the heroes into the ocean of unbearable grief. Ram had to banish Sita in order to serve the Raj-Dharma, & Pandavas lost their mental peace, in Shanti Parba, Dharmaraj broke down completely & wanted to leave the kingdom. It can be noted that they didn't face any mentionable happy moment after the war was finished! Rather they had to watch destroy of Yaduvangsa like a dumb spectator; they lost their relatives, & the best friend Krishna. All of those incidents were responsible for the decision of Mahaprasthan.
8) Both the epics have a tragic end. All the main characters died at last. But it's noticeable that, Ram had to sacrifice Sita & Lakshman first, & then he decided to leave the earth. Similarly, Yudhisthir also had to sacrifice his four brothers & Draupadi, & then he went to heaven!
So I think these similarities are not only co-incidental, but also the impact of Ramayan on Mahabharat. To find that how much Mahabharat was affected with Ramayan, I got that above points. There may be more points which I have missed, if you can find them, then please post here with your analysis. Besides, what do you think about this impact? You can also share your any feelings regarding this topic.

also a few characters of Mahabharat were affected by Ramayan's characters! They mainly pointed out the following characters,

1) Yudhisthir. His character was close to Ram, as both dedicated themselves in the service of truth & Dharma. Both were calm & full of mercy. None of them became angry when they were deprived & banished, & both of them easily welcomed their grief. The great sage Markandeya also compared the condition of Yudhisthir with that of Ram during Vanavas. In Van-Parba, when Dharmaraj asked if there is anyone who had suffered like him, then that sage retold the story of Ram. We find there a smaller version of Ramayan in Van-Parba.
2) Arjun. Both the authors claimed him as the Lakshman of Mahabharat! They wrote, Lakshman & Arjun are similar in their heroic nature. Both are Mahavir, & protected their elder brothers during the time of adversity. Besides, both had brotherly love towards their elders, & both were "Jitendriya"! Last but not the least, both of them suffered Vanavas for almost same reason!
(I have a little addition here; I think the incident, in which Yudhisthir had to banish Arjun for 12 years, was affected by the incident of Lakshman-barjan. Lakshman had to enter into Ram's chamber violating his order, just to save the people of Ayodhya from curse of Durbasa. Arjun also had to enter into Yudhisthir- Draupadi's room, just for welfare of a Bramhin! Both were then punished by their elders!)
3) The author has claimed that, Bheem is the new creation of Mahabharat who is not affected by Ramayan, but he thought Bharat & Satrughna became the Nakul & Sahadev later in Mahabharat!
(I could not support this theory till now, as I could not find any similarity between Bharat & Nakul. Can you find any point to support it?)
4) Later one of the authors said that, Bheem was created with a small part of Kumbhakarna.
5) Vidur can be considered as the avatar of Vibishan, as both of them were the embodiment of justice & were unable to tolerate any unfairness, even if it is done by his near & dear ones!
6) Duryodhan can also be considered as Ravan. Both were proud of own power, both had the lust of power & wealth which became the cause of their death.
7) They considered Avimanyu as the part of Indrajeet, as both fought like real hero till his death.
(But I did not find any other similarities! They don't have the same type of character. Besides, their processes of death were not similar. What do you think, friends?)
8) The Babhrubahan incidents of Manipur are close to the Lav-Kush incidents of UttarKand. Both are the first meeting between father & son, & in both cases, father was defeated by his son! Then the reunion became easy.
Thus, Ramayan has a great impact on Mahabharat. Now I want to see what you are thinking about this topic.

**xmarica** · 01-04-2012

You're right, there are so many similarities.

**suman8** · 01-04-2012

Ok, i think this is already mentioned but still to reiterate it, the root cause of both the wars was a woman. Sita, in the case of Ramayana (though it could also be Shurpanaka) and Draupadi in the case of Mahabharata.

**lost** · 01-04-2012

Mahabharat: A Myth or a Reality

It has been believed by some historians and laymen that Mahabharat is just a fictitious fable emerged from the fantastic brain of the Sage Ved Vyas. It has been contended that such a 'war' could not have occured owing to the detailed description of various facets of the 'epic'. However, tradition as well as many Bharatiya scholars have all along maintained that Mahabharat did actually occur and is a complete reality. Mahabharat is not just a story, but the detailed account of a event occured in the past. The few points are noted below that indicate a few differences in what is 'reality' and 'myth'.

1. It has been written in the epic from time to time that Mahabharat is a "itihas" which exclusively means "thus occured". The words "Puraan" and "Itihas" were specifically coined by the Arya people to catagorize the "ancient" and "recent" events. Both the words denote history that has occured at different times.
2. It is mentioned in Aadiparva, Adhyaya 62 that the annals of the Bharat-Dynasty are recorded in the work.
3. It has been clearly stated in the Aadiparva, Bheeshmaparva etc. that this is "itihas". If the intentions of the writer were to write a poem or a work of fiction, he would have stated it to be a "mahakavya" or "katha".
4. It would to absurd to say that the Mahabharat is not a "itihas" due to its poetic nature. It was a custom in those days to write everything in poetic form.
5. Ved Vyas had decided to write down the "itihas" even before the initiation of the Mahabharat War. Therefore during the course of the War, Vyas meticulously noted down all the possible details. If it were a work of fiction, why would a person like Vyas want to fill his work with such minute and unnecessary details ?
6. A number of dynasties with their lond lineage of kings have been presented in the work. More than 50 kings from King Barhi to the Pandava King have been recorded. Additional information about the King, his wife, his scions, his relations, etc. have been accounted in great detail. If it were just fiction, only 4-5 kings would have sufficed to build the story on. Then why such mind-boggling details ?
7. The dynasties recorded in the Ramayan and the Mahabharat concur without a difference. Even the relations between different kings and their dynasties in both the great "epics" match with each other. If both were mere "epics" written by two entirely different at two different times, why would everything match even upto minor details ?

Mahabharat is of a later date than the Ramayan. Why would the author of the Mahabharat borrow the same ideas and characters as those of the author of Ramayan ?

8. Usually, the story of any "Maha-Kaavya" circulates about one or two main characters. If this were the case with Mahabharat, who would then be considered the "hero" of the drama ?
9. Many events mentioned in the Ramayan and Mahabharat are the same. Eg.: The mother of (latter) King Sagar was poisoned by his step-mother so that her child would be aborted. But the child was born nevertheless, who was therefore named Sagar.
10. The cities established by certain kings has been noted in detail.
11. All the characters in the "epic" are well-portrayed. Even single facet of their character and important events in their life have been recorded. Are such detailed accounts important in a "Maha-kavya"?
12. The weapons mentioned in the Ramayan and the Mahabharat are somewhat same. Infact, some weapons in the Ramayan are not mentioned in the latter "epic". (eg. Soorya'stra, Yamya'stra, Shoolva'stra..etc.) [ Considering the true occurance of the two great events, the above mentioned weapons might have disappreared in the era in-between the two events took place].
13. If it were a poetic fiction, such comprehensive account of the events on the battle-field would'nt have been given. For a poem, it is far-fetched. It will only serve the purpose of boring the reader to death!
14. The description of such myriad of characters is astonishing. It is impossible for one single-mind to be the genesis of that number of personality-types. It could only be true if the Mahabharat is the recording of a real-life drama.
15. The time and place of events have been accurately recorded. All such recordings are redudant for a "Maha-kavya".
16. Not much poetic description of the flora-and-fauna is given. Such description in ornate language is only used in fictional works and not while recording history.
17. Vyas mentions to have written this "itihas" after the death of King Dhrutarashtra. Why would he write so ? Did Shakespeare say that he wrote "Hamlet" after the death of Hamlet himself ?
18. The Greek historian Megasthenes has stated that Chandragupta Maurya was the 138 King in the lineage of Shri Krishna. This means that Shri Krishna did exist in the bygone era and that Mahabharat did really occur.
19. It was a custom to keep a track of the Kings lineage. The Chinese traveller confirms the above. Manahbharat being a true account of a occured War, such lineages are seen to be recorded.
20. Archaeological excations has discovered the submerged city of Dwaraka. This is the same Dwaraka as mentioned in the Mahabharat. [ The city of Dwaraka has been reckoned to have drowned in between 2000-3000 B.C.]
21. The astronomical recordings in the Mahabharat "epic" and other scriptures (Bhagwat), given the correct positions of the planets and stars during that time. How could a work of fiction be proved using mathematical tools ?

**lost** · 01-04-2012

**rubinko** · 01-04-2012

Very Very Interesting guys!!

**biryani** · 01-04-2012

The more you read about Hinduism the more you will get confused, I believe you must have experienced what I am saying. You can not find answer to any of your question, because it is fully fabricated, and amended according to the need and time.

Read the story given below; where Hanuman is said to be brother of Bhīm. Whare as you say Bhima is incarnation of Hauman.

Do not take these stories serious you will go mad.

Know about the salvation and the savior who can redeem your soul from destruction.

Story:
The Pandavas were in exile in the forest. They wandered through the wilderness and often had adventures and unusual experiences.
While they rested in the forest of Narayanshrama, a beautiful flower wafted into Draupadi's hands. Enamoured with the fragrance and beauty of the flower, she requested Bhima to bring her many more.
In his search, Bhima wandered into a grove of plantain trees at the foot of a mountain. There he saw an enormous monkey lying across his path, and blocking it. He tried to scare the monkey away but in vain.
The monkey merely said that he couldn't move. Besides, no human was allowed to go further on this path, which belonged to the Gods. Bhima exasperated with this idle talk, insisted the monkey move out of the way.The monkey replied he was too frail to stir. Bhima, he said, could either jump over him or move his tail out of the way and make way for himself.
The burly Bhima tugged at the tail, but to his amazement he couldn't move it. Even using all his considerable strength, he found that the monkey didn't budge an inch. Shamefaced and humiliated, he stood aside and asked the monkey who he really was.

The monkey then spoke gently to Bhima, telling him that he was actually his brother Hanuman. He then transformed himself to his holy form and stood towering over the mountains, shining with glory.
The two brothers embraced each other in delight. Hanuman promised to help the Pandavas in their battle against the Kauravas and assured them of victory.

He further told Bhima where exactly he would find the flower he was looking for. Thus Bhima found what he was looking for and returned to Draupadi and his brothers.

**biryani** · 01-04-2012

Ramayan and Mahabharat happened in two different ages.
Ramayan happened in TRETA YUGA, in which Lord Vishnu had to come on the earth as a human being in the avatar of Sri Rama. Sri Rama is a more human character.So he needed Hanuman to help him in accomplishing his mission.

Mahabharat happened in DWAPAR YUGA, when Lord Vishnu came on the earth in the avatar of Krishna. Krishna is a more divine character. He is self sufficient.
The incidents in Mahabharata are totally different from the incidents in Ramayana. Story is different, characters are different. The Total historical set up is different.

But some immortal characters like Hanuman are there in both of these epics.
In Ramayan we find very big role of Hanuman, because Sri Ram is in the form of a commom human. He needs the help of others for accomplishing his tasks.

In Mahabharat, Hanuman is not needed much, because Lord Krishna himself was self sufficient.
He planted Hanuman on Arjuna's Chariot Flag, to protect the chariot from being blown away by the mighty attacks of the Kourawa Warriors, like Drona Charya, Karna, Bhishma, Duryodhana and many others.

**chorbaje** · 01-04-2012

What are the exact dates of ramayan and mahabharat? when did they took place?

**santosh** · 01-04-2012

1) Dating of epics By Dr.P.V.Vartak:

(i)The dates of few events from the Ramayana:

Rama's Birth Date 4th December 7323 B.C

Rama-Seeta Married 7th April 7307 B.C

Rama Exiled 29th November 7306 B.C.

Hanuman enters Lanka 1st September 7292 B.C

Hanuman meets Seeta 2nd September 7292 B.C.

Seetu (Bridge) built 26-30th Oct. 7292 B.C
on the ocean

The War begins 3rd November 7292 B.C

Kumbhakarna is killed 7th November 7292 B.C.

Ravana is killed by Rama 15th November 7292 B.C.

Rama returns to Ayodhya 6th December 7272 B.C.

(ii) The dates of few events from the Mahabharata:

Going to forest 4th Sept. 5574 BC

Kitmeet Killed 7th Sept. 5574 BC

Going underground 19th May 5562 BC

Keechak killed 1st April 5561 BC

Anukeechak-Massacre 2nd April 5561 BC

End of secret life 9th April 5561 BC

Cows stolen 15th April 5561 BC

Arjuna exposed 16th April 5561 BC

All pandavas exposed 19th April 5561 BC

Marriage of Uttara 4th May.
& Abhimanyu.

Krishna set out for a treaty. 27th Sept.

Stay at Upaplavya 27th Sept.

Stay at Vrukshthala 28th Sept.

Dinner to Brahmins 29th Sept.

Entry into Hastinapur 30th Sept.

Krishna meets Kunti etc. 1st Oct.

Invited for meeting 2nd Oct.

First meeting 3rd Oct.

Second meeting and an attempt 4th Oct.
to arrest Krishna.

Third meeting Vishvaroopa 7th Oct.

Stay at Kunti 8th Oct.

Krishna meets Karna. War 9th Oct.
fixed.

Krishna returns 9th Oct.

Pandavas preparation 11th Oct.
Balaram's visit.

Mahabharat war started 16th Oct.

Abhimanyu killed 28th Oct. 5561 BC.

End of War 2nd November 5561 B.C.

Yudhishthira crowned 16th Nov. 5551 BC.

Bhishma expired 22nd Dec. 5561 BC

Pandava campaign 15th Jan. 5560 BC
for wealth

Parikshita born 28th Jan. 5560 BC

Pandavas return 25th Feb. 5560 BC

Ashvamedh Deeksha. 1st March 5560 BC

Return of Arjuna Horse 15th Jan. 5560 BC

Ashvamedh yajna 22nd Feb. 5559 BC

Dhrutarashtra went to forest 18th Aug. 5545 BC

Pandavas visited Kunti 18th Aug. 5543 BC
Vidura expired

Death of Kunti, Dhrutarashtra, Sept./Oct. 5541 BC
and Gandhari

Yadava Massacre 5525 B.C.

Parikshit Dead 5499 B.C.

Timeline of evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Astronomical Dating of the Ramayan
The Scientific Dating of the Mahabharat War

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